Is it good to live under the terror of the rule of law? Is the Supreme Court currently functioning as it should? In a special edition of the “#BezKitu Campaign” program, former Prime Minister Hanna Suchocka and judge of the Criminal Chamber of the Supreme Court, prof., were asked about these matters. Włodzimierz Wróbel.
President Andrzej Duda during the ceremony on the occasion of the 150th anniversary of the birth of Wincenty Witos, he said that the meeting took place in “very specific circumstances”. – Today, ladies and gentlemen, we are dealing with the terror of the so-called rule of law – he said.
Former Prime Minister Hanna Suchocka, asked about these words in the “#BezKitu Campaign” program on TVN24, said that “it is good to live under the terror of the law, not under the terror of an autocrat.” – Terrorizing by law, in a positive sense, is a good phenomenon, we just need to define it now – she said.
Judge of the Criminal Chamber of the Supreme Court prof. Włodzimierz Wróbel admitted that President Andrzej Duda’s words surprised him. – If the president is afraid that the law is in force and that it is to be applied, I wonder what could be the reason for such fear – he said.
– Either one is governed by the law or the law governs. An autocrat is ruled by law and then, of course, he is not afraid of the law, because the law (then) is an instrument to force others to behave in a certain way. However, the autocrat is actually afraid of the way the law rules, because he cannot do much in his own way, arbitrarily for his own needs and interests – he added.
Close relations between politicians and judges
Radomir Wit’s guests were asked about the close relations of the PiS president Jarosław Kaczyński with the head of the Constitutional Tribunal, Julia Przyłębska, and a sincere confession by the first president of the Supreme Court Małgorzata Manowska about his acquaintance with President Andrzej Duda.
Hanna Suchocka said that “this is a very difficult problem when you actually have been friends with someone for years.” – Everyone must find where the boundaries are so that we can be friends on a social basis, but we must know that there are certain boundaries that cannot be crossed – she added.
She explained that “even in great friendship I cannot share certain matters that belong to the essence of my office.” – Especially if it is an office of independence, such as the courts – she added.
Prof. Włodzimierz Wróbel, referring to this topic, said that “the autocrat is also convinced that he is a good person and therefore you have to trust him.” – And if you trust an autocrat, it doesn’t matter who he meets with, whether he drinks vodka with this one or that one – he pointed out.
– In a democratic state of law, what people think about the government is extremely important, they must have confidence in it. They must feel that this is serious, that this law is serious, that this is what it is separation of powers that these regulations mean something, he emphasized.
The Supreme Court judge noted that symbolic gestures turn out to be very important in moments of crisis. – When there is a crisis, it is not the time to meet privately, even to discuss ballet or aviation – he added.
Prof. Sparrow: This causes some dysfunction
– It would be quite trivial to say that Supreme Court does not function as it should. If only for the reason that organizationally there are two political institutions created by politicians and for political decisions – said prof. Włodzimierz Wróbel pointing to the Chamber of Extraordinary Control and Public Affairs.
The judge pointed out that it is rare to mention the name of a part of the Supreme Court, that it is extraordinary. – Not only is it the highest, but it is also an extraordinary chamber, which clearly shows that we are dealing with something special, special, very important for someone – he said.
Prof. Wróbel recalled that the Chamber of Professional Responsibility “was created in such a way that the president walked around and looked someone in the eye and chose who would adjudicate there.” – This is already causing some dysfunctions – he added.
Former Prime Minister Hanna Suchocka noted that “we all find ourselves in such a situation, due to this chaos, that the chamber that we deny legitimacy decided on the validity of the elections.”
– We are entering a certain spiral of chaos created by this system. These are key pillars for thinking how to restore the rule of law, she added.