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Justice Fund: new tapes. “The first knee of the Republic of Poland” and millions for the hospital

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The hospital where the president of Law and Justice, Jarosław Kaczyński, was operated on, received subsidies from the Justice Fund amounting to almost PLN 18.5 million within five years, Onet reported. For several days, the media – including tvn24.pl – have been publishing recordings recorded over the last two years by Tomasz Mraz, former director of the Justice Fund Department at the Ministry of Justice.

Tomasz Mraz is one of the suspects in the investigation into irregularities in the awarding of million-dollar subsidies from the Justice Fund, described as the “main witness” in the case who is “slandering the gangsters”. Zbigniew Ziobro and his support from Sovereign Poland managed the Ministry of Justice and the Justice Fund itself for years.


Last week at a meeting of the parliamentary settlement team PIS Mraz he mentioned the “first knee of the Republic of Poland”. – There was an agreement for one and a half or two million, and Minister Romanowski told me that there was an order to conclude such an agreement. An application was supposed to come to us, we were supposed to prepare a contract, and then he added: “the first knee of the Republic of Poland needs to be operated on,” he said.

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READ MORE: What the former director of the Justice Fund Department said

Tomasz MrazPAP/Leszek Szymański

Meeting tapes. “Do you want a difficult question?”

The tvn24.pl portal obtained recordings of two meetings attended by Tomasz Mraz, Marcin Romanowski, as well as two officials in charge of the Justice Fund Department who are currently in custody – Urszula D. and Karolina K. The meetings took place in February and March this year, when a special team of prosecutors was already investigating irregularities in the Justice Fund.

READ MORE: : “It's best not to remember.” We reveal the tapes of Mraz and Romanowski from February and March this year

One of the conversations brings up a topic that Mraz raised in his speech in the Sejm.

Tomasz Mraz: Do you want a difficult question that I, for example, am afraid of? I don't know if it makes sense, but: “If the MP said, or the minister said, why at the moment when, immediately before or immediately after Jarosław Kaczyński's knee surgery, the hospital named after Professor Gruca received a subsidy?”

Clerk 1: And you know what I would say? “Yes? Was it before? Was it after?”

Marcin Romanowski: “I do not keep a calendar of Prime Minister Kaczyński's operations.” I think…

Clerk 2: Such operations are planned…

Clerk 1: No, I would say: I don't have that knowledge, it's a coincidence.

Tomasz Mraz: But lest you be, you know…

Marcin Romanowski: No, but it's good that… It didn't occur to me at all. Was there any connection there? There it was more like… You know, that's how it works. The boss (that is, Zbigniew Ziobro – ed.) comes to the hospital with Pawełek, because he broke something there, and he talks to the professor and says: “What's going on?” And he said that both would be useful. Well, please write to the fund. That's how it works. But I won't say it.

Clerk 1: Well, no, that's why I say: Yes? I do not know anything”.

Tomasz Mraz: I only remember that you told me something: the knee needs surgery. “This” knee.

Marcin Romanowski: No, but I think we were laughing at it.

Marcin Romanowski: It was more about the fact that it is worth having a good relationship with this guy, because he is a man, you know, related to Kaczyński, so on that principle.

Clerk 2: But you won't answer that.

Marcin Romanowski: Well, obviously I won't answer that. It's a good idea to laugh at such a question.

Clerk 1: I don't see the connection, I don't have that knowledge. “Yes? Really? No.”

Marcin Romanowski: It's also good to answer: “Please forgive me, but I don't keep Prime Minister Kaczyński's treatment calendar. I have no knowledge about it” (laughter).

Tomasz Mraz: and Ministry of Interior and Administrationhow did you have the surgery?

Marcin Romanowski: But that was it [operacji].

Marcin RomanowskiMarcin Obara/PAP

Tomasz Mraz: Half the bubble was gone.

Clerk 1: But they got it first, then there was surgery. Now a person wouldn't be able to get treatment anywhere, because there is already a subsidy everywhere.

Romanowski: But you know, that's a tough question. Half of hospitals in Poland received support.

Last week, after Mraz's testimony, tvn24.pl directed questions to the hospital in Otwock regarding subsidies from the Justice Fund. To this day we have not received an answer.

Onet: four subsidies for the hospital in Otwock

The content of the recordings was also published by Onet on Monday. “There is no doubt that it was about the operations that Jarosław Kaczyński underwent at the Prof. Adam Gruca hospital in Otwock. The PiS leader was operated on there twice: in 2019 and 2022,” wrote Kamil Dziubka and Andrzej Stankiewicz, the authors of the publication.

READ ALSO: : Matecki comes to Romanowski. “It looks very bad, gentlemen.”

Onet also asked the director of the hospital in Otwock about when and how much money the facility received from the Justice Fund. Prof. Jarosław Czubak announced that the hospital received four grants.

amount: PLN 1,010,917.91. Purpose: to equip the medical entity with an intraoperative microscope and surgical tools for the reconstruction and replantation department. Completion of the project: August 28, 2019. “Probably, former director Mraz had this subsidy in mind, because at the end of 2019, Kaczyński underwent his first knee surgery in Otwock,” Onet wrote.

– amount: PLN 3,980,626.43. Goal: equipping the Imaging Diagnostics Department with a digital diagnostic imaging system for simultaneous taking of two-plane, silhouette X-rays in a standing position with software for 3D modeling of the skeletal system; completion of the task: March 18, 2021

– amount: PLN 3,499,724.26. Objective: retrofitting and modernization of the equipment of the Department of Anesthesiology and Intensive Care with the Post-operative Department and the Pediatric Anesthesiology Department (4 ventilators and a system for monitoring vital signs). Completion of the task: October 24, 2022. “A few weeks later, the president was operated on for the second time in this hospital,” Onet emphasized.

– amount: PLN 9,969,000.00. Objective: retrofitting and modernization of the equipment of the operating theater and the reconstruction and replantation department. This largest grant is divided into tranches. The last one will be paid at the end of this year.

Jaroslaw KaczynskiWojciech Olkuśnik/PAP

Onet asked the hospital authorities what they thought of Mraz's suggestion that the money flowed to Otwock following him Jarosław Kaczyński. “All applications for subsidies submitted by the hospital to various institutions (including SF, WOŚP, foundations) concern only the substantive and medical aspects of the hospital's equipment and infrastructure,” reads the answer.

Kaczyński about the “first knee of the Republic of Poland”

On Thursday, journalists asked PiS president Jarosław Kaczyński if he knew who the “first knee of the Republic of Poland” might belong to. “I don't know,” he replied.

Jarosław Kaczyński about the “first knee of the Republic of Poland” and the words of Tomasz MrazTVN24

– They are taking advantage of someone who is a fraud. If what I'm hearing is true, it's a scam. There is someone behind him who – if Poland were a law-abiding country – would be somewhere else – he added, pointing to Roman Giertych.

According to Kaczyński, Mraz “most likely entered there (the Ministry of Justice – ed.) as an agent.” – First, he fulfilled the first part of his role, caused an internal quarrel, and then moved on to the next one – argued the PiS president.

Main photo source: Wojciech Olkuśnik/PAP

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