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Justice Fund. New tapes. This is how the “Ziobrists” were preparing for the actions of the prosecutor's office

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The content of new “Ziobrists tapes” related to the Justice Fund scandal has been revealed. – I have prepared material on how to behave when they arrive at 6 a.m. or are taken for questioning. Such a manual. (…) It's better to be prepared for the worst – says the former deputy minister of justice in a recording published by TVP Info. “Gazeta Wyborcza”, in turn, published a fragment of a conversation between an official of the Ministry of Justice, Urszula D., who says that she will deny everything. – Unless they have my sensitive correspondence on Pegasus – he adds.

Since last week, the media, including tvn24.pl, have been publishing tapes that were recorded over the last two years by Tomasz Mraz – former director of the Justice Fund Department at the Ministry of Justice. They concern the functioning of this particular fund.

READ MORE: The Mraz tapes and the Justice Fund scandal. We summarize previous publications

Mraz is one of the suspects in the investigation into irregularities in the awarding of million-dollar grants from the fund, described as the “key witness” in the case who is “slandering the gangsters.” Zbigniew Ziobro and his support from Sovereign Poland managed the Ministry of Justice and the Justice Fund itself for years.

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Former director of the Justice Fund department Tomasz Mraz (in the middle) during a meeting of the PiS settlement team in the Sejm PAP/Leszek Szymański

“I will deny everything”

On Friday, “Gazeta Wyborcza” published a fragment of further “Ziobrists tapes”. Tomasz Mraz, who had been recording the management of Zbigniew Ziobro's ministry for nearly two years, recorded the conversation in question after reporting to the prosecutor's office and applying for the status of a “minor crown witness”, the daily notes.

In the recording, Mraz, together with former Deputy Minister of Justice Marcin Romanowski and his predecessor in the Justice Fund, Urszula D., “are wondering how to avoid responsibility for activities related to the Justice Fund,” we read.

READ ALSO: “Deep pathology”. Minister of Justice on the Justice Fund

” – Should I delete correspondence with half of Solidarity Poland? – asks Urszula D. and reveals that Patrycja Kotecka, Zbigniew Ziobro's wife and a gray eminence in his party, wrote to her,” “Wyborcza” reports. As the daily reports, “Urszula D. is wondering what to do if questions about Kotecka are asked at a possible investigative commission.”

– About contacts with Mrs. Patrycja? What to do? How much did she interfere in things? I will deny everything, unless they have my sensitive correspondence with her on Pegasus – he says in the recording quoted by “Wyborcza”.

Marcin RomanowskiMarcin Obara/PAP

Romanowski: I have prepared a manual on how to behave when they arrive at 6 a.m

A day earlier, another, previously unknown fragment of the tapes was revealed in the “Dangerous Liaisons” program on TVP Info. In the recording, you can hear Romanowski and the officials subordinate to him preparing for possible actions by the prosecutor's office regarding irregularities in the Justice Fund.

TVP Info reported that the recording probably comes from March 28 this year and was recorded in the apartment of the former deputy minister of justice, Marcin Romanowski. Tomasz Mraz participates in the conversation, and at some point it is also joined by two ministry officials who are currently in pre-trial detention – TVP reports.

The date of the interview is important. Two days earlier ABW officers, commissioned by the National Prosecutor's Office, searched the houses of several Solidarna Polska politiciansincluding Zbigniew Ziobro and MPs Michał Woś, Marcin Romanowski and Dariusz Matecki.

Ziobro about the search in his house: all these actions are illegalTVN24

– Just yesterday, even after we had agreed, I received information that the prosecutor's office really seemed to be speeding up. In the sense that they have recently really expanded the work of this team – says Romanowski in the recording, who the day before was supposed to talk to the Minister of Justice and Prosecutor General Zbigniew Ziobro on this matter.

When questioned by Mraz, Romanowski specifies: – It means that maybe they have not accelerated, but it is clear that they are taking it seriously. And in such a systematic way and they want to act strongly. In that sense.

Mraz asks if they “collect receipts from the department?” – I don't know that. It was, you know, feedback from the National Prosecutor's Office that they also involved the Internal Affairs Bureau, replies Romanowski.

Romanowski emphasizes that “you need to be very prepared for procedural activities.” – I have prepared one… unless you have something like that already collected somewhere, some material on how to behave when someone breaks at 6 a.m. or is taken for interrogation. Such a manual. Not only for us, but for people in general. You never know. It's better to be prepared for the worst and be positively surprised than the other way around – says the former deputy minister in the recording.

Zbigniew Ziobro and Marcin RomanowskiWojtek Jargiło/PAP

“I'm afraid of this Matecki”

In the next revealed fragment of the conversation, Mraz says: – If I were to criticize something so directly, it would be these “letter” systems. (…) It was an abuse of authority. Because it follows directly from the paper that there is consent to it being assessed in a way that is really separate from… the experience of the subject, I don't know… the staff. To award letters based on (…), without such clear…

– I remember it – Romanowski replies. – We will explain this. In fact, from the very beginning we explained that the projects did not meet the goal sufficiently. All right. Maybe they fit in less well than others, but on the other hand, the concerns, the criteria… are strong, aren't they? This is why we introduced the purpose criterion in response to the allegations NIK anyway, he adds.

READ MORE: Matecki comes to Romanowski. “This looks very bad, gentlemen,” Mraz says, “this might be an idea.” – When I looked at the advertisements, I looked at the things that are clearly visible from the documents – he says. To which Romanowski replies that “I wouldn't be afraid of such formal matters.” – What I would be most afraid of is that someone will suddenly come out and start telling me that we told him to do this, or I don't know, we told him to pay money for something (….) God knows what those different people, those from Matecki, did. I'm afraid of this Matecki, says Romanowski.

Dariusz Matecki is an MP from Sovereign Poland (previously Solidarity Poland), he is also the president of the Anti-Polonism Monitoring Center foundation (since 2021). As we showed in the report “Party Fund”, it is linked to the Fidei Defensor and Friends of Health associations, which were subsidized from the Justice Fund. On March 26, the Internal Security Agency searched his apartment.

Mraz tapes.  Matecki at a meeting at Romanowski's

Mraz tapes. Matecki at a meeting at Romanowski'sTVN24

Gazeta Wyborcza, TVP Info

Main photo source: Joanna Skladanek / Forum

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