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Justice Fund Tapes. “Common idea” by Ziobro and Rydzyk. More recordings

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New tapes of the conversation between Tomasz Mraz, Marcin Romanowski and – this time – an unknown envoy of the Lex Veritatis foundation have been published. It took place in March 2022 and concerned plans to award money from the Justice Fund in the competition to organize a concert with the participation of the band Sound'n'Grace and Roksana Węgiel. It was supposed to be a joint idea of ​​Zbigniew Ziobro and father Tadeusz Rydzyk. As the conversation records show, both the ministry's representatives and the monk were skeptical about him. “We will spend PLN 300,000 senselessly,” Romanowski commented on the proposal. The decision on what the application for money should look like took place when the competition had not yet been announced – reports OKO.press.

For several days now, the media have been publishing recordings made by Tomasz Mraz, former director of the Justice Fund Department at the Ministry of Justice, over the last two years. Mraz is one of the suspects in the investigation into the Justice Fund, described as the “key witness” in the case who is “slandering the gangsters.” Zbigniew Ziobro and his support from Sovereign Poland managed this ministry for years.


Read more: What the former director of the Justice Fund Department said

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The tvn24.pl portal obtained recordings of two meetings in February and March this year attended by Tomasz Mraz, Marcin Romanowski, as well as two officials in charge of the Justice Fund Department, who are currently in custody – Urszula D. and Karolina K.

“It's best not to remember.” We reveal the tapes of Mraz and Romanowski from February and March this year

New tapes by Mraz and Romanowski. They concern the Profeto Foundation

A conversation “astonishing, full of twists and turns”

On Saturday, the OKO.press portal also published new tapes. The conversation, which the portal describes as “astonishing, full of twists and turns”, took place on March 22, 2022 at the Ministry of Justice, in the office of the then deputy minister of justice Marcin Romanowski. Tomasz Mraz and an unknown monk, sent to talks with the ministry by the father's Lux Veritatis foundation, also participate in it. Tadeusz Rydzyk.

The conversation concerns the planned concert, which – as we read – is a “joint idea” of Ziobro and Rydzyk. The band Sound'n'Grace and Roksana Węgiel are scheduled to perform.

“The Redemptorist is to discuss with ministry officials what the content of the application that will win in the competition that is yet to be announced should look like,” writes OKO.press. “However, it quickly turns out that both the monk and the deputy minister are skeptical about organizing the concert and wonder how the foundation can… lose the competition without arousing suspicion in both bosses,” we read. According to the portal, the project ultimately did not come to fruition.

“First doubt” – nothing in the statute

During a conversation Tomasz Mraz evaluates the foundation's application. He points out that it is only three pages long, and offers submitted to the ministry are usually about 80-90 pages long. Mraz points out that in the statute of the Lux Veritas foundation there is no specified activity that meets the objectives Justice Fund.

“But here the first doubt I have are the statutory goals of this foundation. Because here we are actually involved in science, higher education, education, education and upbringing, so perhaps this is only one point that would be suitable – ed. .) is education. Then we have the promotion of Polish culture and national heritage, but the aim of this project is not to promote national heritage through any public activities. I don't know if Roksana Węgiel is a national tradition – sums up Mraz.

“(Further – ed.) cultivating Polishness, developing national awareness, citizenship, culture in means of communication. Well, but there is nothing about countermeasures in this point of the statute. Actions for the protection and promotion of health, in particular by providing assistance to disabled people , supporting and developing local communities, supporting and disseminating physical culture and sports. So here there is only one thing – education. And if these are all the goals and it is impossible to change the statute, then education must be emphasized very strongly. is aimed at educating young people as a way to counteract the causes of crime. This is education, a very strong activity on this topic, because it is a statutory goal on which we base it. The implementation deadline is 2025, says Mraz.

Amended statute and point-by-point instructions on writing an application

Later in the conversation, the ministry – as we read in OKO.press – recommends the Redemptorist to change the foundation's statute. “A few months later, Lux Veritatis actually changes the statute, adding, among other things: counteracting addictions and the causes of crime. The change was disclosed in the National Court Register in early January 2023. – the portal draws attention.

“In the following part the men discuss what should be entered in the subsequent sections of the application so that it is properly assessed and so that the ministry can recognize that the concert fulfills the role of crime prevention. They discuss how many people should come there, what kind of audience, what social effects of the event can be described, whether it will be a live or online event, how and in what media it will be promoted. Tomasz Mraz instructs the Redemptorist and deputy minister in detail point by point.

“Wasting money down the drain”, minister and director “fixated”

As described by OKO.press, the interlocutors complain that Ziobro and Rydzyk insisted on organizing the concert in question.

The portal quotes that at one point he was a Redemptorist says about Rydzyk that “he has a 'lots and lots' mentality. He doesn't understand the word 'small'”. – Each of us will get hit on the head by our principal – the monk continues.

From my perspective, I'm sorry, but this is a waste of money. For a concert worth PLN 200,000, for Roksana Węgiel, to which 400 people will come. There's a better way to spend this money and do something more useful – comments Tomasz Mraz.

– The truth is that the best effect and the most we would all gain would be in a situation in which it was the offer submitted by Lux and she would lose on the merits. Because then we would actually refute any accusations with this one fact – he also says, among others: Mraz. – I'm just wondering how to skill this project. What formal mistake could be made – the Redemptorist replies to him. – Lack of signature of an authorized person – suggests Mraz. – Who is the authorized person? – The statute and the offer indicated that there was a sole proprietorship. One-person, so to speak, says Mraz about Rydzyk, quoted by OKO.press.

Later, the monk asks what can be done to prevent the idea from coming to fruition. – In such a case, we are actually presented with an offer containing formal defects. This is the cleanest option where we get the information that, unfortunately, something went wrong. And she was accepted, I mean, she passed. Only then does someone have to put ashes on their head and say, well, we failed,' Mraz points out.

Then Deputy Minister Romanowski speaks again.

– On the other hand, I understand the minister that he wants to do such a concert, although I think it's a waste of money – he says at one point. – Me too. I mean, these earnings really scare me, adds the Redemptorist. – Sometimes you look at things that are needed. Psychological help or help for children after violence, there is no money for such things. This is simply immoral – says the deputy minister quoted by OKO.press and points out that “the men decide that they will somehow make it clear to their superiors that the event is 'senseless, immoral, with no effect'”.

– If there was a competition in 3-4 weeks and there was no pressure for a concert, we could really meet after the holidays, we could brainstorm and think about what would make the most sense and be the most important. I can hang out, says Mraz.

– The problem is that the minister is fixated on the concert – Romanowski then interjects.
– And the director too – adds the priest. – Well, let them have a concert – decides Romanowski.

“We will spend 300,000 senselessly”

As the portal writes, “after a few twists and turns,” the interlocutors agree to try to convince their bosses not to organize the concert in question. However, in case of resistance, organization will take place.

Coming back to the concert, we will eventually organize it and spend 300,000 senselessly – sums up Romanowski. – That's the point – says the Redemptorist. – Let me put it this way. This is not the kind of money that is spent senselessly in this country as a last resort – Romanowski further comments. – 300,000 is less than the monthly budget we need. For maintenance, says the monk.

– Okay, so for now I'm telling the minister that it doesn't make sense, that… – says Romanowski at one point. – Yes. I will try to fight like a lion to make you realize this… – replies the representative of the foundation. – To skill it. We don't do this school project, or the family project either, and if they insist, then… – he adds. – Then let them do it – replies the monk.

At the end, however, there is a twist again.

Okay, the question is, will your father or someone else come here to finish this? Father? Yes? – asks Romanowski. – But to finish something? – “the monk doesn't understand, because the idea was supposed to be clever” – writes OKO.press. – Our Grace concert, or whatever it's called. And coal – says the deputy minister. – Sound'n'Grace – corrects the monk. – Sound and grace – Romanowski explains loudly. – Sound, grace and coal. Well, it's a bit like a Silesian concert – jokes the monk. – In Zabrze – adds the deputy minister. – Okay, so just in case, are you able to write a motion based on what was said or not? – But the one for the concert? – the monk is still making sure. – Yes. – Well, if necessary, I'll write, you know, I'm just saying… – Are these notes enough, or is there something more? – asks Romanowski.

The OKO.press editorial team reported that they had contacted the creators' managers, asking whether they were actually talking about the concert, which was to be organized by Radio Maryja.

“Over the last few years, the management of Sound'n'Grace has changed several times, and in the materials available to the band there is no information about any arrangements with people associated with the Lux Veritatis foundation. Until the publication of the article, we had not received a response from the people responsible for the management. Roksana Węgiel. We also sent questions to the Lux Veritatis foundation. We are waiting for a response,” it was written at the end.

Main photo source: Tytus Żmijewski/PAP

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