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Thursday, June 13, 2024

Kowal: we were really close to a national disaster

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The Justice Fund will go down in history, it will be in textbooks and when I read what happened there, I think: we were really close to a disaster – said Paweł Kowal (KO) in “Fakty po Faktach”. – If there were irregularities, they should be pointed out and those responsible should be punished – said Zbigniew Bogucki (PiS).

Roman Giertych published a recording from March 2024 in which he talks to Tomasz Mraz. The former director of the Justice Fund said, among other things, that the Fund allocated “Ziobro limits” that could be used by specific politicians from specific constituencies. – I saw how it worked in the 2019 campaign. It was disgusting, said Mraz. The effectiveness of these subsidies was later analyzed. – There were cases where 130 votes were bought for PLN 800,000 – added Mraz.

Read more: “Ziobro's limits” for individual constituencies. Tomasz Mraz on details

Kowal: we were really close to a national disaster

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Paweł Kowal said in “Fakty po Faktach” that “if someone wondered whether it was worth changing the government in Poland last year, in October, they should always see what was happening in the Justice Fund.” – The Justice Fund will go down in history, it will be in textbooks, and when I read what happened there, I think: we were really close to a disaster. A state catastrophe understood in the way that I know as a political scientist means that there is no democracy beyond a certain border, he said.

– If members of the ruling camp are so demoralized and say so openly that they will steal, because in fact they say so, they do not even create any pretense, they behave among themselves like a gang, they no longer pretend to do anything, they say: we take the state money, we will take it for his own – he continued.

– This is a very serious matter. We have not fully understood it yet, because we do not realize how close Poland was to catastrophe, thanks to such politicians and thanks to such a criminal policy as the Justice Fund – he added.

Bogucki: if there were irregularities, they should be pointed out and the perpetrators punished

– Mr. Kowal has just spread an almost apocalyptic vision of the collapse of the state – said Zbigniew Bogucki. – Let me remind you, Mr. MP, that revenues to the state budget were twice as high during the time we were in power, many social programs that Poles did not have, and the expansion of the army – he mentioned.

Paweł Kowal and Zbigniew Bogucki in “Fakty po Faktach”TVN24

– A moment ago, Mr. Kowal had a vision that at the last moment Polish democracy and Poland were saved. Please don't be offended, but this is a complete aberration. If we are talking about the Justice Fund, of course it is the sacred right of the new authorities, the new government, the prosecutor's office to investigate it – but I emphasize, the prosecutor's office, the services – and finally, this assessment belongs to an independent and independent court – he added.

– Mr. (Adam – ed.) Bodnar has been the prosecutor general for half a year. And what happened during that time? At this time, there are no charges against the politicians of Sovereign Poland. There are some isolated things regarding the Justice Fund at this time. If there were irregularities, they should be pointed out and those responsible punished, he said.

Kowal: Poland needs a moral breakthrough

Paweł Kowal, speaking about the situation in the Ministry of Justice related to the fund, said that “there will be more such places, because we can also see what is beginning to emerge regarding funds in the Ministry of Sport.” – I look at it with horror and I believe in moments like this that providence guides the nations, because we were really close to disaster – he added.

He stated that “we are still in the process of transformation after the PiS government.” – It's good that they are over and every day when another thing like this comes out, everyone should be convinced of this – he said. – Poland needs a moral breakthrough, which would involve accountability for what he did PIS – added.

Bogucki: it is not true that someone took money into their own pockets

– Today, I cannot agree with the lynching of the media or politicians from the ruling camp, who say that we had some gigantic drama in a situation where there are no verdicts – said Zbigniew Bogucki.

The PiS politician also said that “it is not true that someone took money into their own pockets.” – You can have doubts about how this money was distributed and investigate the procedures, but it wasn't that the money was given to “the rabbit's friends”, that it was given to some politician who pocketed it, but it was, for example, rural wives' circles that received it. , foundations, fire brigades – he added.

The scandal surrounding the Justice Fund

Since last week, the media, including tvn24.pl, have been publishing tapes that were recorded over the last two years by Tomasz Mraz – former director of the Justice Fund Department at the Ministry of Justice. They concern the functioning of this particular fund.

READ MORE: Deleting e-mails “with half of Solidarity Poland”, questions about Ziobro's wife. “I will deny everything”

Mraz is one of the suspects in the investigation into irregularities in the awarding of million-dollar grants from the fund, described as the “key witness” in the case who is “slandering the gangsters.” Zbigniew Ziobro and his support from Sovereign Poland managed the Ministry of Justice and the Justice Fund itself for years.

SCARFACE AROUND THE JUSTICE FUND

Main photo source: TVN24



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