– On tapes, Paweł Kukiz shows the face of politics and shows that he knows the system in which he works today – says his good friend Artur Groc. The former Kukiz’15 activist recorded a conversation with the politician, which concerns, among others, his cooperation with PiS. – The whole country and the arrangement hangs on my three votes – says Kukiz on the recording, fragments of which were published by TVN24 “Black on White”.
At the end of May last year, Paweł Kukiz concluded an agreement with Jarosław Kaczyński, the president of Law and Justice, which provides that Kukiz and the deputies cooperating with him will support, among others, the Polish Deal. In return, PiS is to support Kukiz’s projects. Among others, the judges of the peace, the so-called anti-match law, the anti-corruption law and the referendum day law.
Thanks to the agreement with Kukiz, the PiS president was to regain the majority in the Sejm, but it turned out on August 11 last year that he did not exist. Paweł Kukiz and three deputies from his circle voted with the opposition to adjourn the deliberations until September, which was against PiS’s intention.
The Marshal of the Sejm, Elżbieta Witek then ordered reassumption of voting. In a re-vote, three out of four MPs from Kukiz, including the party leader himself, were against the postponement of the vote. Officially due to an earlier mistake. Due to the fact that the deliberations continued, PiS and Kukiz could vote lex TVN.
Recorded conversation with Kukiz
Among other things, this parliamentary evening concerns a recorded conversation between Paweł Kukiz and his good friend Artur Groc, who is currently outside politics.
The former Kukiz’15 activist claims that he recorded Kukiz after a scuffle took place during a demonstration against Lex TVN between MP Dobromir Sośnierz from the Confederation and Groc’s son Mateusz. – Protecting him a bit, but also my own person, seeing what is happening, I decide to record the conversation. I have recorded maybe two of them. But at that moment I realized that it is somehow a policy – says Groc in an interview with Warcholiński.
– Kukiz is part of this PiS pact, and I saw that this PiS pact is capable of destroying every person, so I was afraid that the situation would be similar in my case as well, he adds.
Groc said that “on these tapes, Paweł shows the face of this policy and shows that he knows the system in which it functions today”.
Kukiz: the authoritarian system
In the recorded conversation, Kukiz repeatedly assures that he began to cooperate with PiS in order to be able to finally implement his projects. Together, they have a parliamentary majority which, in Kukiz’s opinion, “hangs” on his deputies. – The whole country practically hangs on my three votes – admits on the recording.
Kukiz in the recorded interview states that in order to maintain the majority, Kaczyński “buys votes”. He calls PiS activists “jumans”. – If Paweł spoke about “yumans”, it means that he meant thieves – Groc explains to the reporter “Black on white”.
About the president of PiS Kukiz in the recording he says: “What can harm him from changing the electoral law when he does not need directly the instruments of power that he has at the moment, necessary in this active policy, so that … to exercise an authoritarian system? “.
Kukiz about “the possibility of Kaczyński buying some other three”
The recording also refers to the session of the Sejm on August 11 last year. Then Kukiz and his deputies first voted in line with the opposition, that is, to postpone the deliberations until September.
“When I saw that it is f … and it is September, I f ** k … and my legs buckled, because each day, you understand, moving from one meeting to another, there is something like that, for me it is a … and the possibility for Kaczyński to buy some other three. W … do you understand? ” – says Kukiz.
After the vote was lost by PiS and – as they themselves claim – the mistake of Kukiz’s deputies, the Speaker of the Sejm announced a break. During it, Paweł Kukiz was invited to the so-called dark lounge. Then the politician and two deputies from his circle voted as Kaczyński wanted.
– He didn’t play anything in this parlor. He did not play anything at all. He turned out to be a little boy played by the main players, here I’m talking about (Mateusz) Morawiecki and (Jarosław) Kaczyński. Although I told him many times: Paweł, but you could have won at least a mixed ordinance in this room – says Groc.
The editorial staff of “Czarno na biały” tried to ask Jarosław Sachajka, one of the Kukiz’15 MPs, about the implementation of this postulate. “We will boycott your station for now,” he replied. The other Kukiz’15 MPs also refused to answer the questions.
Paweł Kukiz declines to comment
The editors of “Czarno na biały” also wanted to talk to Paweł Kukiz about what he says on the recordings, but the MP consistently refuses to talk to TVN24 journalists.
On the day of broadcasting the report, at the next request for a statement, Kukiz wrote: “Let your station first apologize to its viewers for manipulating them, suggesting my” selling out “in exchange for joint voting with PiS (we do not vote everything together). Let him apologize for Monika Olejnik’s lack of reaction to the extremely offensive epithets from Sikorski towards me, apologize for the perfidious hatred from the Sopot festival stage and remind (this reliable and free station) that from the very beginning Kukiz’15 had in its postulates capital distraction in the media , and even if PiS voted against the media bill, we would vote for this distraction. Until your viewers apologize for manipulating them, out of respect for them, I will not talk to your station and its representatives in public “(original spelling).
Paweł Kukiz’s conversation with Artur Groc is not a crime. It was registered by the participant of the conversation, Artur Groc, which is not a violation of the law.
The content of the recording concerns public matters, important from the point of view of voters and the functioning of the state. He exposes hypocrisy, showing the views of a politician on matters of state importance, different from public declarations. This happens in a situation where the endurance of what he calls authoritarian power depends on his support.
The publication of the recording is therefore justified by the public interest. This is how we understand the role of the media which, using the freedom of speech and the right to criticize the press, implement the constitutional right of citizens to social control and reliable information.
Main photo source: TVN24