Guests of Sunday’s “Coffee on the bench” on TVN24 commented on the situation on the Polish-Belarusian border in Usnarz Górny. Deputy Minister of Infrastructure Marcin Horała claimed that “this policy is humanitarian and human, because Poland must defend its borders.” MP Bartosz Arłukowicz accused the ruling party of “having a cruelty gene” in him.
On Saturday morning, in the town of Usnarz Górny, the Border Guard and the army moved the cordon several hundred meters from the border with Belarus, where several dozen foreigners have been camping for several days. Migrants who – according to the Polish authorities – are on the Belarusian side, want to get to Poland and apply for international aid. The Border Guard officers and armed soldiers do not let journalists pass. The place where the foreigners are located has been tightly covered by standing cars belonging to the army and border guards.
The authorities in Minsk are accused of deliberately transferring migrants from Iraq and Afghanistan across the borders with Lithuania, Latvia and Poland, which are also the borders of the Schengen zone, in order to put pressure on the European Union because of the sanctions it has imposed on the Belarusian regime.
Horała: This policy is humanitarian and human because Poland has to defend its borders
The situation was commented on by the guests of “Coffee on the bench” on TVN24 on Sunday: Deputy Minister of Infrastructure and MP of Law and Justice Marcin Horała, MEP Bartosz Arłukowicz, MP of Poland 2050 Paulina Hennig-Kloska, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm on behalf of the Left Włodzimierz Czarzasty, Member of the Confederation Artur Dziambor and People’s Party Dariusz Klimczak.
When asked whether the policy concerning these people at the border would change to “a little more humanitarian and human”, PiS MP Marcin Horała replied that “this policy is humanitarian and human, because Poland must defend its borders.” – We must defend Poland against a hybrid attack controlled from Belarus. It is no secret that the Lukashenka regime and the traders involved in trafficking in human beings and illegal migration are deliberately inviting and there are daily flights to Belarus from Iraq and the Middle East of migrants. They pay several thousand dollars to be then transferred to Poland. If we show the world that this is a good idea, then in a moment we will have a real humanitarian disaster – he said.
– The first task of the Polish authorities is to protect Poland and Polish citizens, but the second task, also humanitarian, is not to support human trafficking, not to support illegal migration, this is a huge harm to these people – said Horała.
According to Horała, “the organizers of these provocations” want to play “on emotions”, and a politician should think about the consequences. – The whole of Europe appeals to Poland, as a border country of the European Union, to guard the EU border. Only perhaps some in Poland are on the emotional level of the schoolgirl. When they see a touching picture, they turn off their thinking – he said.
Arłukowicz: you have the cruelty gene within you
MEP Arłukowicz replied that he was wondering “what needs to be in the heart and soul to call the human reflex of support for someone who suffers as an emotion in schoolgirls”. – We are at a critical moment for the security of Poland and Europe. We have a problem in Afghanistan, we have the Taliban, we have world and European migrations. Poland’s borders must be guarded, but in order to be guarded seriously, this subject must be approached seriously, assessed the MP.
“You have this cruelty gene in you, you have some perverse satisfaction from watching someone who is simply weaker than you suffer,” he said to Deputy Minister Horała. – A serious state is a state in which the strong protects the rights of the weaker, regardless of who the weaker is, and does not trample his rights – he added.
– If you go to the war with Lukashenka and the migration war with barbed wire, it must end disastrously – he said to the deputy PiS minister.
Hennig-Kloska: the pictures that you send out into the world are simply a shame for us
– I must stand up for all Polish schoolgirls. I guarantee Mr. Deputy that, with all their emotional approach and human reflexes, they are able to think with their heads many times much better than the government of Law and Justice, answered MP Horale, MP of Poland 2050 Paulina Hennig-Kloska. – Today you are trying to convince Poles that they have to choose between security and humanity, and there is no such choice – emphasized the deputy.
She stated that “we can, on the one hand, take care of the security of the Republic of Poland and all our citizens, and at the same time remain human in all this”. – You have taken these people together with Lukashenka as hostages and you are playing international politics – she assessed.
– What should we do? It is possible to designate places where you can accept applications for asylum and in the accelerated procedure, because the migration procedure provides for such an accelerated procedure, to consider these applications. Some of them will be adopted, some will be rejected, and we will continue with the procedure to which we are obliged by domestic and international law – said the deputy.
She added that “system solutions” should be introduced at the European Union level. – Poland should be a participant in talks at the European Union level, how to solve all these issues systematically. You are not really sitting at any table today and nobody wants to talk to you about these topics, because the pictures that you send out into the world are simply a shame for us – she said to Deputy Minister Horała.
Czarzasty: when these people start dying, will you be looking at the popularity bars?
– By not letting these people in and not giving them the opportunity to complete the application, we are breaking the law – emphasized Deputy Marshal Czarzasty. – I am frightened by such thoughtlessness, because what are you going to do with these people? And when these people start dying, are you just going to look at the popularity bars, are you going down or up? – asked the MP Horała.
He accused the government of “there is no policy in this matter”. – I represent the Left, I am one of its leaders, and I believe that they must be admitted – he declared. – I believe that they must be given the opportunity to write the application, I believe that they must be helped. I believe that you also need to prepare for the fact that there will be many more such people, assessed the Deputy Marshal.
– At the moment, when these people are threatened, you follow a policy like this: Dworczyk brings them in, and Wąsik takes them away. It is absurd what you are doing – he said to Deputy Minister Horała.
Referring to the comparison between MP Horała and the schoolgirl, he said that “if someone has a heart, regardless of whether he is a nurse or a nurse, whether he has one or another profession, he sees that there are 30 people on our border. that have nothing to eat “.
Dziambor: these are not refugees, but economic migrants
MP Dziambor assessed that “what is happening at the moment on the border has nothing to do with Afghanistan”. – Those who are sitting there are not refugees, but economic migrants – he added.
– They are paying really serious money for this transfer from Belarus through the Lithuanian or Polish border – said the deputy. – These are Iraqi Kurds. Kurdistan today is a relatively safe place and quite prosperous. It is no wonder that they want to live in Germany, because it is even better there, but when I listen to the representatives of the Polish center-left, who of these smart, relatively rich boys in brand clothes with the latest iPhones make the poor, fleeing the Taliban women and children, unfortunately, I see a bit that someone is mistaking empathy with politics – he assessed.
In his opinion “we should all stand in one row”. – I see the need to be empathetic, it is an obvious human impulse that we want to help people in need, but they are not people in need – he said. He added that “this entire campaign is being organized by companies related to the Lukashenka regime” and “of course Lukashenka is handy, because he wants to cause a crisis in the neighboring countries that support his opposition.”
Klimczak: it’s a performance
MP Klimczak replied to MP Dziambor that “unnecessarily completely the Confederation conquers this drum of PiS rhetoric”. – Discrediting people because of what brand of trousers or phone they have is completely out of place and I think that we should not do that in this situation – he added.
– We have a constitutional right to apply for asylum or refugee status in Poland – he stressed. He recalled that this was also mentioned in the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights and the Geneva Convention.
He noted that “even the weakest services in the world will verify these few people during these several days”. – I do not believe that the services of our state have not verified these people. This is a spectacle, what Law and Justice is doing today – he added. He judged it to be “an attempt to rely on the lowest instincts.”
He noted that the law should be respected, but another issue is the “ethical approach”. – When I hear some PiS MPs, I think that the stake in the fence has more empathy. This is not allowed to behave. I represent the Christian Democrat party, we never dazzle with moralizing or adherence to Christian principles, but in such a situation you have to confirm whether you are a Christian Democrat party or not. You are not doing it – he said to the deputy minister Horała.
Main photo source: TVN24