We talked to the former president of the Polish Ski Association, and currently an MP, during the World Cup in Zakopane. He watched the competition with several famous activists. He asked to wait until the end of the first series of Sunday's competitions, which he wanted to watch in its entirety. Then Tajner analyzed the results and agreed to talk – not only about what is currently happening in ski jumping, but also about the activities of the International Ski Federation (FIS) and the behind-the-scenes of the discussion about sports in the Sejm.
Jakub Balcerski: Do you know that FIS “stole” an idea from you?
Apoloniusz Tajner: I didn't hear it. What?
They want a ski jump at the stadium. And not only that. There is to be a mobile facility that travels around the world and will be able to jump 150 meters. Although there were ski jumps on stadiums already in the 20th century, you once wanted such a modern, 95-meter ski jumping hill at the National Stadium.
– I haven't heard anything about this FIS idea. 150 meters? Well, interesting. We actually reached an agreement at the National Stadium a few years ago, but our finances didn't work out. The five million was between revenues and expenses. And I had to remember that if something didn't work out, we would be left alone on the battlefield. That is why we did not ultimately decide on this project.
FIS needs EUR 100 million to implement its plans, and they want to convince a large sponsor to do so. Could this happen or is it just Sandro Pertile's vivid imagination?
– Well, if they give him that much, it's a great idea. I wouldn't see such exhibition competitions at the Maracana in Rio or the shopping center in Dubai as a huge opportunity for jumping, but rather as a variety. But 100 million euros? That's probably a bit too much. Our project at the National Stadium cost PLN 23 million. The revenue would be PLN 17-18.5 million.
This 100 million euros reminds me of when the Russians built ski jumping hills in Sochi. They cost $300 million. Around this time, we were building WisÅ‚a-Malinka for PLN 38 million! It smells like something… But on the other hand, it doesn't matter what they want to do, they will do it well. Then money doesn't matter so much.
You came to Zakopane, you watch the competition as someone with a slightly greater distance from jumping than in the past. Do you still like them?
– Yes, yes. I don't see any ideas that would make sense to change anything suddenly. And if so, introduce everything slowly. But I don't even know in what direction. This system with competitions every week is proven and good, I wouldn't change anything here.
Looking at the Poles, apart from Paweł Wąsek's results, the weekend in Zakopane was quite sad. Are you sad to see some players getting tired?
– They started from quite a low ceiling and are slowly climbing out of it. The world championships in Trondheim are in a month and a half and I think that by then each of them will be jumping at their own pace. For now, PaweÅ‚ WÄ…sek has been surprised since the Four Hills Tournament. He's had that stability ever since.
But there are also others close, I still strongly believe in Kamil Stoch. It just delays those jumps. Apart from that everything is going fine. Dawid Kubacki is quite close. Olek the Destroyer needs air under his skis and can always surprise. Sometimes he will run out of power in his legs. And Paweł Wąsek is ready for the World Championships. I think he will maintain his current form until the end of the season.
When you look at other teams, especially the dominance of the Austrians, not only in terms of the jumps themselves, but also in terms of technology and system, do you have the impression that we have been left behind? That Polish ski jumping has slept through a certain period and now it will be difficult for them?
– NO. I don't have such thoughts. There was a moment when the training groups were combined (season 2020/21 and 2021/22 – note). A lot of players, a lot of staff and collaborators. This doesn't always work. Then there was such chaos there. And returning to a different system was the right step.
I think that Thomas Thurnbichler has only now really matured into leading the national team. And he realized what the difference was between the older and younger players. Kamil went his own way and it was a very good move. The only right one in his case.
You suggested this to him earlier, didn't you?
– Ten years ago, before Stefan Horngacher came here as head coach. We talked about it, but he didn't want to yet. He thought about continuing to be in the group. There was no plan for who would train him then. It was just a possibility, there were no details.
You mentioned coach Thurnbichler, whom you employed when your term as president of the Polish Football Association ended. Recently, even Adam MaÅ‚ysz said colloquially that he “must have balls” and sometimes he lacks charisma. I guess he wasn't ready to work with such players, who were often very stubborn? He is not the type of Stefan Horngacher who, when necessary, will simply bang his fist on the table.
– Yes, Stefan worked with even worse players and was able to lead this team. With the most experienced ones, many things were certainly done unnecessarily. They no longer just need solid training. You have to approach them individually or differently. It was the same with Adam MaÅ‚ysz when he finished his career. And even if a player wakes up in the morning and says: “We were supposed to go here, but let's go here”, they can do it. It's different with a group, you have to obey. And this doesn't always fit with what such experienced players should do.
It is said that ski jumping will soon reach the point where training will have to be so individualized that everyone will have their own trainer. More and more players organize their preparations this way, and the best example is the Japanese Ryoyu Kobayashi, who created his own team. Do you believe in something like that?
– No, I doubt it will happen. Such changes make sense, but only when they are justified. Not that someone will do something to make themselves more comfortable or notice something in others. This must have a full explanation and not be someone's whim.
Do you believe in Thurnbichler? That he will pull it off and come back from the world championships with the medal he set as his goal?
– I mean, I'm already glad that Alexander Stoeckl appeared nearby. Because Thurnbichler finally has someone to discuss everything with. From training through every problem and decision-making. Stoeckl has a lot of experience and for me this is enough to help properly. I talked to Thomas. I think he's very committed. Maybe even too much. It's like skydivers: when you want something too much, it can paralyze you. I believe in Thomas and I think staying with him is still the right way. The players say the atmosphere has improved. When they see that it worked for one of them, that Olek jumped well last winter, they understand that they have already done some good work and now they need to turn it into something more.
Some people laugh that this is MaÅ‚ysz and PZN's “ace in the hole”. That he supports Thomas for now, but later… who knows. He himself says that he does not want to return to being a coach, but the question is whether the situation will change so that he will be encouraged to do so?
– This is a distant situation, because there would have to be some natural movement that would allow for such a change. And so far we can't see anything like that and it's unnecessary. Especially if we look at it in terms of respect or loyalty. It's hard for me to imagine. It's not like we're going to change things like that now.
In the Sejm they ask you: “what about these jumps”?
– Yes, yes. And then I'm happy because I can talk about jumping, not politics.
Is the Prime Minister also interested?
– I am not meeting the Prime Minister.