Already after 2017, we suspected that we were being tapped. Especially when we openly faced the political decisions of the then Minister of Justice (Zbigniew Ziobro – ed.) – said judge Beata Morawiec, who was questioned by the parliamentary committee on Pegasus on Monday. – There were silent calls, conversations with echoes – Morawiec enumerated and admitted that during some meetings judges hid their phones so as not to make it easier for the surveillance services.
On Monday, after 10 a.m., the meeting of the parliamentary investigative committee on Pegasus began. Judge Beata Morawiec appeared before the commission, against whom this espionage tool was allegedly used.
The committee also wanted to interview the former head of the Military Intelligence Service, Andrzej Kowalski, but he did not appear at the meeting. The chairwoman of the committee, Magdalena Sroka, said that the Sejm office had received a letter from Kowalski and the committee “must review the justification for the justification he submitted.”
Sroka confirmed that if, in the justification submitted to the Sejm office, Kowalski refers to the Constitutional Tribunal's ruling on the unconstitutionality of the Pegasus commission, then the commission will apply for a penalty to the District Court in Warsaw.
Morawiec: we suspected wiretapping when we faced Ziobro's decisions
During the interrogation, Morawiec admitted that she learned about the existence of Pegasus from the media. – In fact, the judicial community did not know what the Pegasus operating system meant – what capabilities it had and how it interfered with the private life of the person under surveillance. However, after 2017, we suspected that we were being eavesdropped. Especially when we openly faced the political decisions of the then Minister of Justice (Zbigniew Ziobro – ed.) – she said.
Beata Morawiec on the Pegsus committeePAP/Albert Zawada
She added that she suspected that she had been followed since her dismissal as president of the District Court in Kraków in November 2017. She found out about the decision during her “abroad holiday”. – I couldn't get on a plane and return to Poland to immediately react to this news. (…) Removing me from the position of court president was a political move. My appeal was linked to arrests in the trial conducted against employees of the Court of Appeal in Krakow who embezzled public funds – explained Morawiec.
She added that she openly expressed “theses that were inconvenient for the then Minister of Justice.” – If only for this reason, I believed that some operational actions were being taken against me – she said.
She also said that as the reason for the decision to dismiss her, Ziobro indicated that she did not exercise appropriate supervision over the court director, who was detained in the above-mentioned criminal proceedings. – Such information became an incentive for me, firstly, to make media appearances, and secondly, to file a lawsuit against the Minister of Justice for the protection of personal rights. I filed this lawsuit immediately, in January 2019. The process is now complete. After two instances, the District Court in Warsaw and then the Court of Appeal in Warsaw decided that the minister should apologize to me for insinuating this type of behavior, and also pay an appropriate amount to the Senior Judge's Home Foundation, she said.
She added that Ziobro “filed a cassation appeal to the Supreme Court” in this case, which “has been there for three years because the panels that are to rule on this case are 'neo-judges'.”
“Weird things were happening to the phones”
Beata Morawiec said that some people around her noticed that “weird things were happening to the phones.” – There were silent calls, conversations during which there was echo or the conversation was interrupted for no reason, and we were not in places where there could be no network – she enumerated.
– We began to be very cautious about transmitting information via telecommunications, regarding, for example, the organization of the “Thousand Robes March” or large judicial actions that opposed Minister Ziobro's projects. We hid our phones during international meetings. We did not want this surveillance to be made easier, Morawiec said.
Pegasus Commission
The Pegasus Commission of Inquiry is examining the legality, correctness and purposefulness of activities undertaken using this software, including: by the government, secret services and police from November 2015 to November 2023. The Commission is also to determine who was responsible for the purchase of Pegasus and similar tools for the Polish authorities.
So far, the commission has heard, among others, the former deputy prime minister and the president PIS Jarosław Kaczyńskiformer deputy head of the Ministry of Justice, politician of Sovereign Poland Michał Woś, former director of the Department of Family and Juvenile Affairs at the Ministry of Justice Mikołaj Pawlak and other employees of the Ministry of Justice. The following people, who were wiretapped with Pegasus, also testified before the commission: prosecutor Ewa Wrzosek, former president of Sopot Jacek Karnowski, KO MEP Krzysztof Brejza.
Pegasus is a system that was created by the Israeli company NSO Group to fight terrorism and organized crime. Using Pegasus, you can not only eavesdrop on conversations from an infected smartphone, but also gain access to other data stored in it, such as e-mails, photos or video recordings, as well as cameras and microphones.
Main photo source: PAP/Albert Zawada