First, we need to consider the responsibility of the Minister of Justice himself, but perhaps in this context also of the Prime Minister – said the current head of the ministry, Adam Bodnar, about Zbigniew Ziobro and Mateusz Morawiecki in a special edition of the “#BezKitu” program on TVN24. In this way, he referred to the issue of investigating irregularities in the Justice Fund and the responsibility for this scandal of members of the previous government. He noted that the letter from Jarosław Kaczyński to Ziobro, disclosed in recent days, “is of particular importance” and was one of the grounds for preparing an application to lift the immunity of former deputy minister Marcin Romanowski.
Minister of Justice, Attorney General Adam Bodnar and attorney Sylwia Gregorczyk-Abram from the “Wolne Sądy” initiative were guests of a special edition of “#BezKitu” as part of the Let's Talk zone of the Open'er festival in Gdynia.
Bodnar: Kaczyński's letter was one of the basis for preparing the motion in Romanowski's case
Bodnar commented on a letter from Jarosław Kaczyński to Zbigniew Ziobro from 2019which concerned the spending of funds from the Justice Fund. The content of the correspondence was quoted by “Gazeta Wyborcza”. The President PIS in a letter he asked for “immediate prohibition of Solidarna Polska candidates from using the Justice Fund during the election campaign”. The PiS chairman warned that cases of irregularities “may bring disastrous consequences from the point of view of the course of the campaign”.
The host of the program, Radomir Wit, asked whether there were any traces in the prosecutor's office or in the Ministry of Justice that Kaczyński – having such knowledge or doubts as an important politician of the then ruling camp – had taken any action to clarify this issue.
– This letter is indeed of special significance. It was also one of many factual bases for preparing this application to lift the immunity of Mr. (Marcin – ed.) Romanowski (politician of Sovereign Poland, MP of the PiS club, former deputy minister of justice – ed.) – he said.
Bodnar: Dworczyk asked on behalf of Morawiecki about the implementation of the NIK recommendations
– However, in the context of the Justice Fund, let us not forget that in 2019 there were the first notifications of suspicion of committing a crime in the context of the activities of the Ex Bono Foundation from Opole – said the minister.
He added that “there was also a huge report from the Supreme Audit Office”. – However, the system of power at that time was based on the fact that any such notifications, when they were sent to the ministry, the ministry behaved somewhat on the principle that we did not care at all, because we also controlled the prosecutor's office. So these cases were never conducted in a reliable manner – Bodnar noted.
– One thing is quite interesting, that during Minister Dworczyk's time as head of the Chancellery of the Prime Minister, Minister Dworczyk inquired on behalf of Prime Minister Morawiecki how the recommendations of the Supreme Audit Office were implemented – he said.
When asked whether the Prime Minister must have known, he said that “there are official letters which we, as a ministry, even disclosed somewhere about a month ago, showing that Minister Dworczyk is asking: how do you intend to implement these NIK recommendations?”
– And what did it do? Ministry of Justice? It did not respond, because the Ministry of Justice operated somewhat in this way, on the principle of a state within a state. I mean, we have our own space, ministries, the Justice Fund, prison services, prosecutor's offices, but we try to create such a space that distances itself from all the rest – said the Minister of Justice, Prosecutor General.
“This must be investigated at the next stage of the prosecutor's proceedings”
Radomir Wit noted that the question arises about the responsibility of those who should control the overall actions of the government when any irregularities occur.
– I think that this should be investigated at the next stage of the prosecutor's proceedings – said Bodnar.
He assessed that “it cannot be that in a situation where state officials are obliged to control the institutions subordinate to them, they disregard it, ignore it, and what is more, ignore a constitutional body, which is the Supreme Audit Office, and do not bear any responsibility for it”. – I think that this is a thread that may also have to be examined at a later stage in the context of the Justice Fund – he said.
When asked if it was about the former prime minister's responsibility, Mateusz Morawieckithe minister replied that “we must first consider the responsibility of the Minister of Justice himself, but perhaps in this context also of the Prime Minister.”
– If you make any decisions, whether you are a director, deputy minister, minister or prime minister, this responsibility is a ladder and you cannot hide behind it, because that is what all these notifications and mechanisms are for, to respond to various types of irregularities – he noted.
Gregorczyk-Abram: this is a classic course of every investigation
Attorney Sylwia Gregorczyk-Abram from the “Free Courts” initiative said that this is “a classic course of any investigation, i.e. it simply starts with the people who signed the documents, were directly responsible for X”. – The investigation is developmental and as a result of what is discovered, it is all put together into a whole, looking at how strong the evidence is, to charge a specific person – she added.
Gregorczyk-Abram said that money from the Justice Fund, instead of going to needy non-governmental organizations that “starved during the Law and Justice era, went to finance political campaigns.”
Main image source: TVN24