Dreamtown’s David Weinberg on small-town corruption and the way forward for narrative podcasts

That is Sizzling Pod, The Verge’s publication about podcasting and the audio business. Enroll here for extra.

I’ve a packed concern of Sizzling Pod for you right this moment. First off, I’ve a Q&A with David Weinberg, the host of Crooked Media’s Dreamtown: The Story of Adelanto. The WGA’s particular alliance for audio staff got here out with some pointers on fiction podcasts. Additionally on this concern is Tribeca Pageant’s audio lineup. Lastly, I talked to the individual behind one in all Elon Musk’s favourite podcasts — seems the emotions aren’t mutual.

The whole inhabitants of Adelanto, California, at roughly 38,000 folks, may comfortably match inside Dodger Stadium. So it’s not a shock for those who haven’t heard of the place. It’s a metropolis with few eating places or shops, whose economic system is bolstered by its non-public ICE detention heart. Buried in anonymity in San Bernardino County, Adelanto appears much less of a city than an afterthought — even to the individuals who run it. That instantly turns into clear within the first two episodes of Dreamtown: The Story of Adelanto, as former Market reporter David Weinberg recounts the weird story of how a last-ditch cash seize by the native authorities to legalize weed gross sales solely reaped corruption and an FBI investigation. 

The city’s leaders appear much less like politicians and extra like characters out of a Tim Robinson sketch. There’s councilmember Johnny “Bug” Woodward, a right-wing hippie who thinks weed growth in Adelanto may result in cures for ailments. And Jermaine Wright, an ordained pastor and restaurant proprietor. After each males band collectively and persuade the remainder of the council to move weed laws, cash and greed rapidly overpower any real need to assist Adelanto. Ultimately, Mike Tyson and a Russian oligarch become involved. 

Final fall, Wright was sentenced to 5 years in federal jail for accepting a $10,000 bribe from an undercover federal agent and attempting to defraud insurers by burning down his restaurant. It was then that Weinberg — who was overlaying Adelanto as a freelancer — realized the story was morphing into one thing larger and pitched what grew to become Dreamtown to Crooked Media. The sequence had its official premiere right this moment at Tribeca Pageant.

I spoke to Weinberg about Dreamtown — in addition to whether or not the curiosity in narrative podcasts is waning in 2023 — over a video name earlier this week. Right here’s a frivolously edited transcript of our dialog. 

How did you first find out about Adelanto, the city on the centerpiece of this sequence? And what made you suppose this was a narrative that was meant for audio? 

Nicely, in 2017, I used to be a contract reporter. I had learn some articles about […Councilmember] Bug and about Adelanto’s early transformation from a jail city right into a weed city. And I believed that was sort of an interesting concept — {that a} city recognized for its prisons was attempting to repair itself. So I pitched some brief function tales to Market and KCRW. I went up there, and I interviewed Bug and Jermaine, each metropolis council members. I acquired some excursions across the metropolis with people who had been concerned and work there. 

It was a very good […story] for audio as a result of Bug was a compelling character, as had been the opposite fascinating folks I met on the market. So I completed these tales, they usually aired, and I didn’t actually suppose a lot about it. After which the information broke that one of many metropolis council members that I interviewed acquired arrested. Once I learn the DOJ’s press launch about what […Jermaine Wright] had performed, I used to be like, Holy shit, I interviewed that man! I used to be interviewing him when his daughter was within the room with me, and he was telling me how he was a person of God. He was having all types of ethical conflicts about weed because it was. And so when that occurred, I believed, wow, there’s in all probability a a lot larger story to be informed right here. 

I began doing a little separate reporting on the immigration detention heart there, the place I used to be going inside the power and interviewing detainees. I met this girl, Stevevonna Evans, who was on the town council on the time. This can be a little bit of a spoiler, however she finally ends up beating Bug within the subsequent election when he comes up for reelection. I used to be sort of blown away by her. She was essentially the most candid politician that I had ever interviewed. 

And so I requested her if I may observe her round with microphones. And he or she was like, “Certain.” This was in all probability 2018. So I spent the subsequent few years hanging round with Stevevonna and going as much as the city as a lot as I may. 

One thing that struck me concerning the first episodes I listened to is how candid a few of the sources are. As somebody who’s lived in small cities earlier than, there’s typically a way you don’t wish to air the soiled laundry. The setting appeared a bit totally different in Adelanto. 

Um, yeah, I feel it was a mixture of two issues. I feel folks had been extra candid than they’d have been as a result of I got here at an excellent time, which is earlier than all of the scandals broke. So I feel folks actually needed to brag. Like, oh, have a look at what we did. Everybody used to shit on us. Everybody used to say we had been the crappiest city within the Excessive Desert. And now have a look at us — we’re going to be wealthy. So I feel folks needed to speak about that. After the scandal broke, I sort of simply needed to spend time within the city. 

And so I feel at first, folks had been like, Who is that this man from LA? However then I simply saved exhibiting up. And they also determined that I used to be really within the city and cared what was occurring. I had additionally performed sufficient interviews with a few of the stakeholders in the neighborhood that they’d sort of refer me to different folks. Throughout council conferences, I’d sit the place the cameras are in order that if folks had been watching at residence — they’d see me within the viewers. I simply sort of grew to become a well-recognized face within the city after some time. 

How did you go about pitching the present to Crooked Media? 

I had a lot tape already. I put collectively an eight-minute trailer type of factor, the place I sort of laid out the story. I imagined the beats of it, with folks, audio, some narration, and a few music. I made a pitch deck with images and sort of a sequence define for a way I imagined it might go. 

I pitched it to a bunch of individuals, however Crooked appeared to be the very best accomplice and appeared to know what I needed to do with it. I didn’t need it to be a true-crime story. I needed it to be extra of a portrait of a spot that occurred to have a protracted historical past of scandals and corruption. 

Did Bug strike you as an unreliable narrator? 

He didn’t look like it at first. However I undoubtedly — it wasn’t simply that I believed he was solely wild. However I used to be like…actually? You don’t appear to know quite a bit about weed… or the federal regulation. As a result of I’ve performed a good quantity of reporting on the marijuana business, and I sort of had an understanding of how tough it was to tug off the factor he was attempting to tug off. In addition to the dangers. He appeared to suppose this was simply a straightforward factor. That […Adelanto] would legalize weed, and the businesses would come. He was all the time saying loopy shit, like we’re going to remedy ailments everywhere in the world with weed. 

I didn’t suppose he was nefarious or as much as no good… however I used to be identical to, alright, nicely, good luck. 

We’re having this dialog as Tribeca kicks off its week on audio storytelling, and we’re seeing a few of the area’s finest work get recognition. However this identical month additionally purchased layoffs within the podcast business. Firms like Amazon and Spotify appear to be pulling away from narrative podcasts and are taking a look at reveals which might be simpler to monetize. In your view, the place does that depart audio storytelling like yours? 

I imply, I’m stoked to be right here at Tribeca. My hope is that that is a kind of issues that reveals those who that is an artwork kind price funding. I’m attempting to pitch my subsequent venture, and each individual is like, “We don’t actually do narrative restricted sequence podcasts anymore.” On the identical time, Crooked Media is worked up about how this present is doing. 

I feel there must be extra reveals, proper? Or else how […are these companies] going to generate profits. I don’t suppose there’s ever going to be as many alternatives to make […this kind of show] as there have been even a 12 months in the past or two years in the past. However after I have a look at the lengthy view of issues — I began making radio tales in 2006. And {the marketplace} now’s simply manner, manner higher. Again then, for those who needed to do a longform story, you possibly can get it on This American Life or Radiolab. That was it. Again then, the present that I’m making now wasn’t even a factor. 

I’m not completely doom and gloom. I feel people who find themselves getting within the business now are seeing it shrink and suppose it’s a nightmare. And I’m like, nicely, return like 10, 15 years. However yeah, I don’t have a job lined up after this. And so I’m freaking out for certain. 

Because the writers strike nears the top of its second month, WGA-East’s Audio Alliance unveiled some finest practices right this moment for audio staff. Whereas WGA members who work on non-fiction or information podcasts aren’t impacted by the Strike Guidelines, fiction podcasts which might be coated by a WGA contract are. You may learn the rules here. (Disclosure: The Verge’s editorial workers can also be unionized with the Writers Guild of America, East.)

What’s notable is that the WGA primarily is excited about preserving movie and TV studios from utilizing podcasts as a strategy to develop new tasks. “The WGA shouldn’t be excited about punishing or banning writers for locating work in fiction podcasting in the course of the strike, solely in avoiding podcasts getting used as a loophole for TV and movie studios to develop new tasks whereas they’re being struck,” wrote the Audio Alliance. 

Should you’re a WGA member with your individual impartial fiction podcast, you’re free to hitch a non-signatory podcast community. However the guild says to avoid any deal that entails utilizing your podcast’s IP for future TV or movie growth. “So long as no signatory firm is concerned, making and profiting out of your fiction podcast shouldn’t be thought-about crossing the picket line. The exception to this is able to be if the community/collective is exploiting your IP for TV/movie growth. If the community/collective would totally or partly personal your IP, please attain out to the Alliance or your Guild’s counsel for steerage.”

Spotify unveiled its personal set of advert measurement instruments on Tuesday, which might permit entrepreneurs to see how efficient their campaigns are throughout each podcasts and music. In accordance with the website for Spotify Advert Analytics, the device consists of an “all-in-one, centralized dashboard” and depends on first-party listener information and the Spotify Pixel. The latter consists of a chunk of JavaScript code that permits entrepreneurs to investigate the actions that listeners take after listening to your advert. 

Spotify is planning to debut Advert Analytics on the Cannes Lions pageant subsequent week, the place the corporate is holding a sequence of talks and occasions at Spotify Seaside. CEO Daniel Ek shall be interviewed by Trevor Noah, and lots of of Spotify’s top-ranking execs are scheduled to talk. 

The Tribeca Pageant in New York Metropolis is now in its second week, which can give attention to audio storytelling and podcasts. A complete of 16 podcasts are within the operating for awards in non-fiction and fiction. As Davy Gardner, Tribeca’s curator of audio storytelling, informed me earlier this month, the purpose this 12 months is “roll out the pink carpet” for audio artists. There can even be premieres of a number of podcasts, together with the fiction podcasts The Fabulists and These Have been People. A number of non-fiction podcasts are premiering this week as nicely, together with Abridged and Magic on a Winter’s Night time. Additionally to premiere this week are Radiotopia and Radio Diaries’ The Unmarked Graveyard: Tales from Hart Island, Paradiso’s Free From Want, Wolf on the Door Studios’ The Very Worst Factor That May Probably Occur, and Crooked Media’s Dreamtown: The Story of Adelanto. 

Elon Musk had a clumsy interplay this week with the creator of the Fall of Civilizations Podcast, a historical past podcast of which each he and ex Grimes are frequent listeners. Musk replied to a tweet from the present selling its newest episode with a easy request: “Please add your podcasts to this platform too.” However the present’s creator, Paul Cooper, promptly refused the billionaire’s request — and didn’t mince phrases on explaining why. Cooper tweeted that “the platform was too compromised” for him to contemplate such a transfer.

“Hello Elon, at current the platform is simply too compromised for me to contemplate it. It’s develop into a secure haven for hate speech, and in the meantime crypto scammers and bots are paying to be boosted to the highest of replies. Every thing that when made Twitter particular appears to be leaching away,” the podcaster wrote. 

Final evening, I caught up with Cooper over DM on Twitter to ask him extra about why he selected to not do as Musk requested. He mentioned that the previous CEO of Twitter had not responded to any of his considerations. 

“He appears solely to answer those that reward him, and ignores any criticism. For sure, a poor high quality in a frontrunner.” 

Cooper mentioned he was conscious that Grimes was a daily listener of Fall for some time, referencing a tweet she despatched complimenting an episode from October of 2021. Whereas it’s unclear to Cooper how frequent of a listener Musk is, he did tweet a couple of naval battle between Carthage and Rome after Fall aired an episode concerning the two powers. 

Even when Musk had addressed his considerations concerning the security of the platform, Cooper would have been unable to add his podcast on the platform. Whereas Twitter Blue subscribers can add movies of as much as two hours lengthy, common subscribers face a 512 MB restrict on uploads and a restrict of 140 seconds. “I all the time add in prime quality uncompressed audio, and so this is able to not even cowl half of my episode dimension.” 

Cooper added that the foremost barrier for him would have been the image related to Twitter Blue, which he referred to as a “mark of disgrace.”